It has become increasingly clear in recent times how important it is to unify the Muslims of Tradition, known as the “Salafis” and “Sufis” in the most crudest of terms, but more accurately referring to those practising Muslims that hold to the three well known central schools of ‘aqidah (ash’ari, maturidi, and athari/salafi) at the primary level, and then a mixture of the four schools of law and “no set school of law” at the secondary level. Basically, this means me and you.
This post is not meant to be detailing these issues and well-known differences, for those of us involved in teaching, lecturing, cultivating and bringing communities together are heartily sick of this never-ending vitriol of hatred of the “other”. In fact, it is not just community leaders and scholars who are sick of this but maybe the general masses are starting to wake-up to the dangers of this sectarian partisanship that is afflicting the Muslims at their most pressing hour, eloquently captured by Umm Zaid here, to quote:
O Muslims raised in the Jerry Springer era,
is there a reason any of this went as far as it did?
Is there a reason any of this ever went beyond the first little post?
For what benefit? To what end?What benefit is there in saying
that you’re officially erasing part of the Ummah
from your Crackberry?
Where is the good in mocking and denigrating
this or that group of Muslims because they
pray differently or read different books than we do?Some posted videos
on their blawgs
denying the humanity and
Muslimosity
of other Muslims because they
put a turbah on the floor
before they pray.
They laughed about it
with other Muslims
on other blogs.
Is this what “Comments” are for?Then we turn around and complain
that the non-Muslims don’t see us beyond the stereotypes.
Shame. Shame.
Stand before Allah with those videos.
Will you be laughing then?
Will you be so proud then?What is the reason for such a thing anyway?
Is pulling our official sponsorship
of other Muslims going to change
their status and station with Allah?Or is our talk about being brothers and sisters
limited to a respectful nod and grunt
when we hear the ahadith of the Messenger of Allah
(aleyhi salatu wa salaam)
on the subject of brotherhood?
It is ironic that the back-lash against this untenable Muslim-on-Muslim aggression is coming from the internet itself, when it is very same internet that has exacerbated this enmity beyond control. Anyone reading this will no doubt be aware of their own role in fueling this fire, despite the fact their leaders and Imams have been trying their best to condemn this fitnah, indeed to quote from a useful summary of the situation from a “Sufi” perspective by brother Yahya Birt:
The phenomenon of rejoicing in groupthink, and claiming some automatic authenticity and superiority is common among camp-followers of any grouping and is hardly unique to traditionalists alone or even to Islam. The harm arises when this is systematically fostered by the leaders of such a movement. Yet the evidence for claiming that the leaders of traditionalism are guilty of this seems thin on the ground: in fact I’ve heard a number of them make explicit condemnations of cultishness or groupthink. How far that is taken on board is another matter of course.
This is a feeling from both sides of the debate; it would be wrong to think that there are winners and losers in such polemics with even the “Salafi” camp starting to realise the dangers of disunity, as honestly expressed here on the MuslimMatters forum:
Wallahi, the “traditionalists” are not perfect, and wallahi, the “salafis” are not perfect. So, why not discuss these issues of differences in a soft, amiable way instead of name-calling, hate-mongering and the like? I saw you and Abu Yusuf being thus… soft with words, “open-minded”, tolerant, humble and full of adaab. Yet, this behavior was not reciprocated. See this response of Abu Yusuf to GF Haddad’s original article that was replete with personal attacks. It reminds me, as SW stated in his post, that the same behavior we saw from some of the hard-line “salafi” shayookh, whose entire wala wal bara was related to a person’s knowledge of where Allah is, is now becoming apparent in the “other” side. And similarly, the hard-liners’ entire jarh wa ta’deel was related to Asharism as opposed to some other sects that were much further away from them in methodology and ideology. Now, many among our “traditionalist” brothers find this to be the most productive topic.
Still, it seems sadly clear that our attempts to placate the internet masses are failing and hence, to quote again from brother Yahya, further action was needed:
At the very least for Sufis and Salafis of the West (and elsewhere), a moratorium on polemical exchange, particularly over the internet, should be called for, matched by a process to getting religious scholars on both sides to met regularly along the lines of the Amman Initiative. A minimal goal would be to take the heat out of differing so that it becomes that beneficial form of differing that increases knowledge and does not create rancour, hatred and division. It might also open up a way to work together towards common interests and goals that are shared in common. There is increasing recognition that there are structural challenges facing Muslim communities that are best met together. At the very least forging unity involves the recognition that Sufi polemics against the Salafis have taken on very different implications after 9/11 that should now be taken into account.
It was with this in view that an initiative headed by Shaykh Abdullah b. Bayyah (hafidhahullah) and some of the senior Imams and Students of Knowledge in the West has just convened a week-long retreat to discuss these very issues and declare a unified front against this fitnah that is creating such weakness. The “Global Centre for Renewal and Guidance” (المركزالعالمي للتجديد والترشيد) as well as many other things, has officially been launched earlier today and will be releasing a pact insha’Allah very soon cementing all that which holds Sunni Muslims together and unified so that we can move forward and deal with the real challenges facing the Ummah at the moment, identified by our Shaykh throughout this intensive week into three main categories here, of which details will follow at a later time by expounding on his solution for our wider problem in the West from his wonderful book “The Craft of Fatwa and The Fiqh of Minorities” ( صناعة الفتوى وفقه الأقليات).
Naturally, a “minorities” approach scares off many traditonalists from all camps, for some valid reasons no doubt, but one thing which cannot be denied is the need for valid ijtihad from bona-fide scholars, and if senior scholars such as Shaykh Bin Bayyah do not set the standard, then secularism will rapidly fill that void.
Why “Renewal”? Although a scary word for some, it is simply a phrase indicating the need for perspectives to be renewed, priorities to be re-assessed and our collective iman to be refreshed.
Why “Guidance”? Because the traditional Islam which is under attack at the moment, whether practised by a Salafi or an Ash’ari, finds its salvation in divine knowledge and wisdom through the guidance of our scholars – and it will be the divine criterion of Islam that will cause us to collectively prosper and not the washing away of tradition in pampering to the whims of secularism and modernity.
This will not be easy, and we don’t expect a miracle over night – but the seeds of unity have been sown and the scholars and leaders of the da’wah from all schools, including Hamza Yusuf, Yasir Qadhi, Zaid Shakir, Usama Hasan, Jihad Brown, Abdullah Aladhami, Sherman Jackson and many more in attendance last week from all over the world at this historical and blessed event, have come together to demand their students and followers to do the same.
We hope and pray that Allah grants us all the wisdom and ability to do that which pleases Him and serve the best interest of this divinely blessed Ummah of Muhammad (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa-sallam).
August 27, 2007 at 6:03 am
It’s always the ignorant people that have something to say about everything. Empty vessels make the loudest noise. jazakallah abu E
August 27, 2007 at 7:37 am
As-salamu alaykum,
I hope that you will have the time to write at greater length about the retreat and the topics covered. InshaAllah there would be a general benefit in this.
Kind regards, Yahya
wa s-salam
August 27, 2007 at 11:18 am
Assalaamualaikum All,
A poignant post AE.
We have lost the essence of Unity. We lack the knowledge and wisdom to draw any meaningful conclusions from what we read and practice. Hence, our conclusions are nothing but “judgments”; based on our own ignorance. Not only that; people have become arrogant. We just can’t stop comparing ourselves with others and we deliberately seek out to “demean” the next person (Alhamdolillah, I am relieved that arrogance is not my strong point).
It is apparent that tribalism starts at the individual level.
I had a detailed conversation about Wisdom among the Ummah, with a friend who is a knolwedgable student of Islam, and soon to be scholar inshallah.
He told me that the level of Wisdom from the very knowledgeable and pious scholars, have been lost; and that it is his objective to try and revive it (may Allah (swt) give him success).
This is the dilemma that we face; lack of knowledge and wisdom, and we do nothing to try and gain it. But we do everything to judge and create sectarianism.
We have traded Ilm for Jahiliah, and the withdrawal of knowledge and wisdom from the great scholars, is our punishment from Allah.
May Allah (swt) forgive us and guide us all.
August 27, 2007 at 1:38 pm
Abu esa did you goto jimas conf?
heard hamza yusuf gave a speeech via video link, what did he have to say about the fragile earth?
August 27, 2007 at 6:53 pm
Is it the middle night of Shaban today or tomorow?
August 27, 2007 at 7:44 pm
Erm no he didn’t.
August 27, 2007 at 9:12 pm
salam
much needed post. it is most ungodly how much venom muslims have for other sects amongst us. i have always taken the view that only those who meet allah with a clean heart can be saved ( which is not gained through malice, arrogance and backbiting) neither is a clean heart gained by lipservice to the aqidah of the saved sect!
wa salam
August 27, 2007 at 11:44 pm
jazakAllahkhair for the post… I too hope to hear more from you inshallah on the event.
On a related note, I’d like to point out the efforts of Shaykh Abul-Hussein on this front as well and his recent posts in connection with Br. Yahya’s comments:
http://shaukani.wordpress.com/2007/08/24/reflection-on-akhi-ustadh-yahya-birts-analysis-ustadh-birts-response-to-masud-khan-on-a-deenport-thread/
Alhamdulilah, the sweet scent of a mutually respectful discourse is spreading through the Western lands with the efforts of all the students of knowledge like yourself and the others in the retreat.
August 28, 2007 at 8:19 am
Assalaamu Alaykum,
Can somebody please explain what “unity” means in this context?
I don’t just mean the usual slogans we hear, like ‘Muslims should be united’, or a quote of an ayah from the Quran on holding tight to the rope of Allah.
I am asking the authors of these articles/comments to kindly explain what they mean by ‘Unity’, in practical terms.
I hope this will aid my understanding of the article and the comments,
Wasalaamu Alaykum,
Abu Adam
August 28, 2007 at 8:32 am
Wa ‘alaykum salam wa rahmatullah
Thanks to brothers Yahya and Abul-Hussein for their useful points from both sides of the debate. Thanks to Amad for the link. Thanks to the other brothers and sisters for their encouraging comments given here and on email and indeed at last week’s event personally.
I didn’t go to the Jimas conference this year unfortunately – maybe next year insha’Allah. Shaykh Hamza and Shaykh B. Bayyah were meant to stop by on Saturday morning but other engagements were unexpectedly brought forward.
As for what we covered and agreed upon at the retreat: as this is still on-going, further information shall be released when it becomes correct and relevant to, which might be quite soon i.e. after the ISNA conference has been concluded and further details have been agreed upon insha’Allah.
As for the definition of “Unity”: for me, it is recognising valid difference of opinion, advising on invalid differences and loving your Muslim brothers and sisters for their Islam at all times.
And Allah knows best.
August 28, 2007 at 11:26 am
As-salamu ‘alaikum wa rahmatullah Ustadh Abu Eesa and all readers
I have been reading this blog for some months now and have never left a comment before but feel prompted today to do so (an unconcious prompting brought on by a combination of factors: the weather, the JIMAS conference, the-end-of-the-holiday-is-nigh emotional state, I’ve-got-a-lot-of-work-to-do-but-never-mind-just-take-a-breather emotional state…)
I reached your conclusion Ustadh as a youngster -without studying under a scholar but, i feel/hope, through a process that resonates with the ayah you brilliantly and aptly highlighted in the comments section of your previous post:
“O you who believe, have taqwa of Allah, He will provide you with a criterion (to distinguish between right and wrong) and will write off your evil deeds and will forgive you. Allah is the Lord of great bounty.” (al-Anfāl, 29)
I am so heartened to hear of your recent conference and just “wish” (du’a) that i could have been there. I would perhaps however have found the positive experience overwhelming in such a tainted and negative world which seems so jam-packed with people intent on dissent and promoting their own egos and following their own desires.
What glorous sunshine ahead i espy in your comments and list of scholars & leaders of da’wah involved with this project -masha’Allah, walhamdulillah, may Ar-Rahman, Ash-Shakoor bless it, ameen!
was-salamu ‘alaikum
August 28, 2007 at 11:37 am
Abu Esa, should we take our knowledge from
’shaykh’ hamza yusuf?
August 28, 2007 at 12:41 pm
Wasalaamu Alaykum,
Regarding the definition of unity, I want to understand more of the practical implications:
Usinf your (Abu Eesa’s) definition, what do we do practically? you have said we recognise valid difference of opinion, and advise regarding invalid difference. But what do we actually *do*??
Wasalaam,
Abu Adam
August 28, 2007 at 2:11 pm
hamza yusuf was not at JIMAS nor did he do a video link.
y take knowledge from him when there are so many more learned and reputable shuyookh?
i would stop short of calling him sheikh.
August 28, 2007 at 2:35 pm
Here’s more about ’shaykh’ Hamza Yusuf
August 28, 2007 at 4:14 pm
wa,
why are you getting so emotional? i know Hamza Yusuf wasn’t at jimas…and nor did i ask you if we should take our knowledge from him,i was asking abu eesa.
good day
August 28, 2007 at 6:47 pm
Asalaamu Alaykum,
Does anybody know why Salim Al Amry didn’t come?
He is a regular at JIMAS usually…
Maybe he turned up for a bit, and gave a seminar? I don’t know…
WSA
August 28, 2007 at 7:59 pm
this is a pointless question but something i want to ask out of interest. Abu Eesa: if you were to be placed in a category of muslim eg salafi, which category would you be?
August 28, 2007 at 8:07 pm
As’Salaamu’Alaykum,
The only thing missing was Shaykh Hamza, and you dear brother. Thank you so much for this post. I love you for the sake of Allah.
Was-Salaam
August 28, 2007 at 8:40 pm
assalamoalaikum wa rahamatullah
JazakAllah khayr to the PG brothers for organizing the event last fri…i attended and was filled with hope that the message of unity might be heard and we can stop labelling, pigeonholing and discriminating against eachother.
key points:-
1) to unite does not mean you have to conform……
2) people have disagreed over the same issues for the last 1400yrs so why make it a cause for fitna now?
3)practical steps for overcoming your nafs;-
a) say salaam
b) smile
c) befriend eachother
d) visit eachother(play sport together, great ice breaker)!
e) know that only shaitaan benefits from your disunity and aggression.
even if you feel your view point is the only right way in the sunnah..no one is going to take advice from you when you are hostile, fierce and have no basic adab…nor if you talk but aren’t prepared to listen…its not what you say but how you say it..if after that you feel the person is not wanting to change to what you consider the “haqq” then dont drop them…carry on with the above and make lots of dua–it could be you that needs more guidance…not them.
if you find it hard to do the above and still cant get your nafs tamed when talking to the “other” side then perhaps remember death, visit the graves, got to janazah and contemplate your own mortality–perhaps then you will see the BIG picture.
living in hope
please continue with this series of events and discussions….
and may Allah reward Makki masjid for hosting the event….that was a big move in itself.
wasalaam alaikum wa rahamatullah
August 28, 2007 at 9:16 pm
Excellent event on Friday… jazakumullahu khayran to all involved. Despite some of the comments above, there is hope insha’ Allah.
AE, I wanted to say this to you at the event but was too shy so I’ll say it here… I love you for the sake of Allah!
Keep up the good work please.
August 29, 2007 at 12:08 am
Who did S.Bin Bayyah take his ‘ilm from?
*seriously*
Also Abu ‘Eesaa, you make it sound as though there are minor differences between the Soofees and Salafees. Which isn’t the case. There are MAJOR ‘AQEEDAH differences!
Was it not S.Yasir Qadhie who advised us to stay away from Humza Yusuf…
August 29, 2007 at 12:50 am
(salamu alaikum!!!!
sorry to interrupt, really, but the time’s wrong bro AE, it can be changed on your dashboard go to ‘Options’ and on the ‘General’ page slightly down the page where it says:
Date and TimeUTC time is: *blah blah*
and then a box or somthing saying:
am Times in the weblog should differ by: ***TYPE IN “1″ here bro AE ****
hours (Your timezone offset, for example -6 for Central Time.)
am i being petty? sorry if i am.
oh man, i’m in a horribly smiley mood. i dunno what to do…)
i’ll everyone to it.. insha Allah. please forgive me.
August 29, 2007 at 12:52 am
sorry,
in my head i said: I’ll leave everyone to it.. and i wrote ‘i’ll everyone to it’
boooo
August 29, 2007 at 7:36 pm
Qadhi*
So Abu Eesa ????
August 29, 2007 at 11:11 pm
Abu Eesa May Allah bless you abundantly for Fridays event, we need more of this type of activities. I love you for the Sake of Allah.
I think people working for the Deen such as yourself will help to bring communities together Inshaa’ Allah.
No-one is painting a romantic rosy picture that everything will be ‘hunky-dory’ as there will always be a fringe element in all groups (Salafi/Sufi/Barelwi/Deobandi)that will dwell on differences, deem them all significant/relevant and render others as mubtadi or even (audhbillah) excommunicate others out of the fold of Islam.
Neither is everyone being asked to conform to one viewpoint as it hasn’t happened in the last 1400 odd yrs….so whether you are Athari/Ashari Madhabi or otherwise, everyone is being asked to give each other breathing space on those issues that there is a valid difference of opinion in 1400 yrs of scholarship.
Being realistic I think this noble venture (May Allah subhanauhu wa taa’la make it a true success) is beyond the older generation In general most of the ‘Uncle Jees’ will feel threatened and even repulsed by such absolutely necessary unity….we are in dire need of it….why?? because the problems we face are bigger than the Sufis or the Salafis. Losing our teenagers to drugs, engendering a halaal environment and culture in our communities, supporting those in need, helping the poor, eradicating gang culture, all of these issues (and more) require the collective effort of all Muslims especially since we are purport to be Sunni muslims !
I think you have it right when the Salafis think you’re a Sufi and the Sufis think you’re a Salafi
“Anynoymous…but something i want to ask out of interest. Abu Eesa: if you were to be placed in a category of muslim eg salafi, which category would you be?”
I might be taking a wild guess here, but I would say AE is Sunni Muslim.
RE Sh. Hamza Yusuf, I would Advise my brothers not to backbite the Ulema ;
في صَحيح البُخاريُّ عَنهُ صلى الله عليه وسلم أَنَّ الله عزوجل قال: (مَنْ عَادَى لِي وَلِيَّاً فَقَدْ آذَنَنِي بِالحَرْبِ)
وَقال الإمَامَان الجَلِيلاَنِ : أَبو حَنِيفة، وَالشّافِعيُّ رحِمَهُمَاَ الله: إِنْ لَمْ يَكُن العُلَمَاء أَوْلِياءُ الله فَلَيْسَ للهِ وَلِيّ.
August 30, 2007 at 12:33 am
Couple of points:
(1) Let’s be careful about name-dropping. Was this information heard first-hand? What was the context? So on and so on.
(2) Timing. When was this said? Over the last decade, as the callers to Islam have matured and increased their knowledge, they have also changed their priorities and views. It does not mean a change of “manhaj”, rather a reordering of what is important in the Islamic arena of the West.
A few more concluding points: Before talking about this and that Shaykh, can we contemplate for a couple of minutes while observing the Muslims around us— in our communities, in our families, etc. Does it seem that the majority of Muslims care about BASIC issues in Islam, let alone its intricate details? Do we find all the Muslims praying and fasting and worrying about Aqeedah, let alone actually learning it? If we are honest, the answers will jump at us and we’ll forget about this one and that one, and concentrate on bringing those around us to the Salah, the Zakah and the Sawm. When the majority (not all) start practicing these basic pillars of our faith, then we can definitely worry about who is going down the “wrong” manhaj way.
wallahualam
August 30, 2007 at 3:49 am
[...] as time permits. Until then, here are a few excerpts (not continuous) from the article that is here: It has become increasingly clear in recent times how important it is to unify the Muslims of [...]
August 30, 2007 at 6:21 am
When you’ve got the likes of Khaled Abou El Fadl publishing anti Salafi tracts like ‘The Great Theft’, then we can be sure this kind of unit building has a long way to go, even if it is welcome. But reflecting on this, surely the essence of (at least some) Salafism is a greater belief in DIY – sisters ‘n’ brothers reading the core texts for themselves? And isn’t that at odds with a bunch of bigwigs getting together to proclaim anything? Just a thought.
August 30, 2007 at 7:20 am
Nameless: Did Shaykh Yasir Qadhi really say that about Shaykh Hamzah Yusuf?
August 30, 2007 at 12:27 pm
AE,
Mashallah very good talks on fridays. Please can you do a talk on the prophet muhammed pbuh and his relationship with his wives and children, would love to get an insight.
August 30, 2007 at 1:34 pm
JazakAllahu khayr for this post, I shall be watching with great interest from the sidelines. I also wonder what this means for the various groups of progressive Muslims, they too have benefits for the ummah – and yet some of their claims are also problematic…I wonder how the discourse on unity will unfold regarding them. The senior scholar mentioned so far seems to be Shaykh Bin Bayyah.I’m curious about the other senior scholars, both athari and ashari.
I look forward to learning more in sha Allah. May all these proceedings strengthen the ummah and please its Lord.
August 31, 2007 at 1:25 pm
Wa ‘alaykum salam wa rahmatullah
Jazakumullahu khayran for all those who have offered the same above – apologies for the delay in responding but here are some brief answers to your queries (remember, it takes ten times as long to respond to comments than it does to write a quick post!)
Yes you should. And please avoid putting the word Shaykh in a “quote-unquote” manner for this is not befitting – either don’t mention the word or use it properly barakallahu feek. Also, for your general interest, here is nice article I received in my inbox on a similar issue concerning titles…
http://www.shafii.org/perspectives/2007/08/on_titles_and_honorifics_1.html
In fear of sounding flippant, you will either know what to do or you won’t. If one doesn’t, they have to put their trust in their teacher that they take their religion from and seek guidance on those issues they find difficult to reconcile. The knowledge of al-ikhtilafāt is a detailed chapter that requires deep study with a reliable teacher and is not something that can just be posted about.
That’s fine “wa” but your comment after it linking to that site called “allahuakbar”, had the most amazing effect upon me – it made me say Allahu Akbar too…
Are you ‘Iraqi?
(Imam Mālik was asked a similar pointless question, to which he responded with the above…)
That’s very kind of you barakallahu feek – maybe we’ll both be the there next year. Also, ahabbaka aladhi ahbabtani lahu.
On behalf of the PG brothers (who are the biggest group of technophobes that exist by the way), may Allah bless you and all those who attended. Thank you for a very beneficial summary and the kind words.
So Zi, let me get this right – you made me go out into the throngs and make an utter poppie of myself hugging everyone and you blagged it?!
Ahabbaka aladhi ahbabtani lahu (May the One for whose Sake you have loved me, Love you).
Likewise, seriously, would you recognise any of the scholars that Shaykh Abdullah studied under? *Seriously*
Anyway, you can find some further information about the Shaykh here:
http://www.binbayyah.net/Pages/memoir/saidabout/index.htm
Also brother/sister, I’d like to thank you because by your question, I went to the Shaykh’s site run by his students and found a very special tazkiyyah for Shaykh Abdullah from one of my own teachers who not only have I not seen in approximately a decade, but is also the first time I’ve seen a photo of him on the net, namely Shaykh Muhammad Salim Wald Wudūd al-Shanqiti (may Allah always protect him), the uncle of Muhammad Hasan al-Dadu. Thank you!
http://www.binbayyah.net/Pages/memoir/saidabout/morabit.htm
There is some truth in what you say – both extremes of each group do have major ‘aqīdah differences, whereas the middle ground of both camps have very much in common and indeed only “minor” differences (as far as one can go in terms of far‘i and usūli differences in ‘aqīdah) as far as I’m concerned. And I haven’t tried to sound anything out yet! And if you believe there are major differences and problems, I urge you to deal with that as you see fit, for we are dealing with things as we see fit and Allah jalla wa ‘alā knows best.
No idea.
I followed your instructions to the letter. Has it been corrected now?
Ahabbaka aladhi ahbabtani lahu!
We certainly will insha’Allah, as soon as we finish on the chapter of the family in the Adab class.
Watch this space.
PS: whenever you wish to write a long response in the comments section, type it out in Word first…
August 31, 2007 at 1:59 pm
“I followed your instructions to the letter. Has it been corrected now?”
YEY!!!!!
you know how to make me happy!! .. so easily amused!
lol!
(yep, still in a strangely smiley mood… Oh well lol!)
“PS: whenever you wish to write a long response in the comments section, type it out in Word first…”
- do you mean so that we don’t make silly mistakes like i do?! ha-ha!
have a really REALLY nice day bro! May Allah bless you all!
August 31, 2007 at 9:19 pm
as-salaamu ‘alaikum AE and the rest,
Cooperation on that which Islam considers good is not limited to Ash’aris, Maturidis, etc. But the command in the Quran encompasses the entire creation, which includes the Jews, the Christians, the Socialists, BNP, Gays and Lesbians and what have you. In that sense, I am a fierce promoter of cooperation with all, and especially our Ash’ari and Maturidi brethren.
However, the current climate and whatever is going on has absolutely nothing at all to do with cooperation upon righteousness. Nothing at all. It is all to do with recognising the Ash’arism and Maturidism as legitimate Sunni schools, and legitimising deviant and heretic practises that are rampant amongst majority of the Sufis today.
The most saddening part of the episode is that the Ash’aris and Maturidis in this regard haven’t changed one bit. They still consider us anthropomorphists. The ‘Athari’ in their Sunni trinity refers to a mufawwidh, who cannot be bothered to understand ‘ilm al-kalam and therefore he subdues his intellect to kalami conclusions and instead of making ta’wil, he opts for tafweedh.
We are not part of the equation at all.
So here we have our elders, so-called leaders of the Salafi Dawah in the West who once couldn’t stand outside of al-Muntada, lest their orthodoxy is attacked, are now calling for cooperation with those whom they regarded as heretics, but in reality, what we read and hear from them is pure legitimisation of what they previously regarded to be heresies. It is only the ‘Salafis’ that are having a change of heart. Not the Ash’aris or others, and that is the most saddening part of the episode.
AE, did you once say to me that you do not take much interest in ‘aqida issues? If that is the case, do you really think you are in a position to determine who are the extremes or the mainstreams in either of the groups, and whether or not the difference between them are minor or major?
And what if we were to objectively discuss who are or aren’t the mainstream in both camps and whether or not the differences are major or minor? Or is it that you’ve already made up your mind, and therefore, wouldn’t dare to venture into that kind of objective discussion to begin with? And if this is the case, then tell us honestly, who is evading a fruitful and truth-seeking discussion here? After all, as you know this has been my only complaint: say what you want, but at least discuss with an open mind and heart instead of shying away from such discussions, fearing their inevitable outcome.
The belief in the creation of the Quran, is it major or minor difference to you?
The view that faith only consists of beliefs and not actions, is it a major or minor difference to you?
Legitimisation of ‘ilm al-kalam, is it a major of minor difference to you?
Negating Allah’s elevation upon the throne, is it a major or minor difference to you?
Belief in determinism, is it major or minor?
Are all these issues minor to you? If that’s the case then I guess the entire generation of Imam Ahmad were foolish to get lashed, banged up in prisons and die of starvation.
Yes, these difference have existed for a thousand years, and for a thousand years these views have been regarded as heretical by the Sunnis. So what has changed now that we suddenly feel the need to disregard our 1000 years tradition and accept them as orthodox? In fact, the Shi’as have also existed for more than a 1000 years, longer than the Ash’aris. In that sense, they would have more right over recognition then the Ash’aris. But hey, didn’t someone suggest that Israeli attack on Lebanon was somehow good because the oppressors were killing each other? (or something along those lines)
As far as I am concerned, I am all for cooperation with the Shi’as, even. I have no problems with playing football, snooker, or campaigning for our rights with Shi’as, socialist, etc… And I am very eager about the idea bringing the Maturidi and Ash’ari brothers closer to us to at least create a channel of communication and dialogue…
But I guess, once you accept them whole heartedly as Ahl al-Sunnah, there is no gap to bridge then, is there, AE? So may be this is what you’re thinking! aha!
The bottomline is this. Most of the people are sick and tired of people shoving their agendas down their throat. We are all as much thirsty for the truth as we are for unity, and we cannot get one without the other. Unity and cooperation based on lies will collapse, just as the agendas set by our respected elders, which was based upon lies and deception, collapsed. This is inevitable.
We would rather work with our Ash’ari and Maturidi brothers, knowing that we both consider each other deviants, than to lie to ourselves and the general public about our history, facts and beliefs.
We are all for cooperation, but NOT for hiding the truth and another wishy-washy agenda that is bound to fail like all the other agendas in the past.
August 31, 2007 at 9:56 pm
Jazzaakillaahu Khayraa’ Abuz-Zubair!
August 31, 2007 at 11:03 pm
unity and not uniformity eh? couldn’t agree more
August 31, 2007 at 11:20 pm
Wahoo Abuz Zubair!!
August 31, 2007 at 11:24 pm
Wa ‘alaykum salam wa rahmatullah
A lot of statements, a lot of assumptions and all based upon…what exactly?
My advice: wait a few days for something to materialise and then attack/critique/destroy/objectively discuss it.
Until then, I forgive you for your second round of attacks without coming to me first…but hey, at least I got to read about this one here first eh?