In a shocking revelation yesterday, Shaykh ‘Abd’l-Muhsin al-Obaikan was caught and filmed dancing at a wedding party in Saudi.
Saudi sheikh in wedding dance row
As an adviser to the Saudi Ministry of Justice and a member of the Shura Council, he’s hit back and has condemned rumours that are being circulated via the internet about the video clip that shows the Sheikh taking part in the traditional Saudi ‘Ardha’ dance at the walimah.
This is not the behaviour expected from our Mashayakh. It’s difficult not to be incredibly disappointed.
I mean for crying out loud, of all the dances he could have chosen to get filmed on, he chose…the Ardha?!
Man, if you’re going to get your groove on, it’s got to be the Dabkah.
Now that’s what I’m talkin’ about bro.
(Disclaimer: I am free from anyone googling/youtubing “dabkah” and the subsequent consequences as a result of their search!)
March 13, 2008 at 1:43 pm
Ustadh I have a question and it isn’t actually meant to be a random ‘hypothetical’ question in any way at all; it is actually sincere and I wanted to know the answer as it is extremely disturbing that these type of occurrences happen more often than we think.
I was watching a few documentaries and one was about a few people, including a Jewish man from Poland who had survived Auschwitz; he had been there for 5 years and they lived in appalling conditions, with dead bodies rotting in their rooms, and they were starved basically. Near the end of the war, before they were liberated, the situation got so bad that they use to cut little pieces of the dead bodies with broken glass they had found, cook them and eat them.
This is in no way an isolated incident and it happens across the world all the time.
I just wanted to know, Islamically, if you were as desperate as these men were, would you ever allowed to do something like that?
March 13, 2008 at 9:12 pm
Dear AE,
Are we not jumping to conclusions about the Shaykh ??
“This is not the behaviour expected from our Mashayakh. It’s difficult not to be incredibly disappointed.” – AE
I know that in ‘literal’ terms you have stated that you are ‘disappointed’; but nonetheless, in the vast majority of people that expression carries many connotations – actually they might be aligned to what you really thought.
Allah knows why he had partook in such an act; but we should not judge him.
I draw a parallel to what you taught me earlier…
——————————————
I said….
“Please listen to The Deen Intensive foundation’s advertisement for Rihla 2008, and tell me whether it’s permissible.”
(AE) You said…. in particular the last bits…
If you mean the music, then I must admit that it sounded like the intro to this Summer’s biggest Blockbuster movie. I guess that those who hold music to be permissible have created that video and wish that the Rihlah programme be this Summer’s Blockbuster. Fair play.
Personally I’d do it without the Orchestra but as I said, if you hold Music to be permissible, then that’s their perogative – I can’t remember Shaykh Hamza’s position on Music but what does this avdert have to do with him anyway? Also, remember that however wrong you hold an opinion to be, one can’t call that person corrupt or evil for holding it if it is derived from evidences (as some scholars have attempted to do). Sure, you might not trust them for taking sacred knowledge from them, but to attack them personally and their morality (not to say that you did of course) is not permissible.
And Allah knows best.
AE
March 13, 2008 at 9:23 pm
A2 – RE: cannibalism.
I was taught that it’s Haraam no matter what the situation. If there is absolutly no food to eat at all, including plants.
I do not know what the position is on eating Swine meat, if you are deprived of any other food… We’ll need clarification from AE for that one.
What I do know for a fact is that; it’s still Haraam to eat bit’s of people, whether they are living or dead. You cannot consume your bodily deposits either.
In these trying times, have faith in Allah (swt) and He Will Help. And if you die of starvation, but with Islamic morals, then Inshallah – Jannah is your destination.
I mean think about it, if we eat a part of a human being, then die anyway (of disease and so forth) then Allah (swt) will punish us – I for one do not want to go to Hell.
If you do eat it then Mercy is in the Hands of Allah (swt); and it is between you and Allah.
May Allah (swt) save us from such tests.
March 13, 2008 at 11:03 pm
What is the difference between this and what the Ethiopians did in front of the Messenger?
March 13, 2008 at 11:23 pm
Wa ‘alaykum salam wa rahmatullah
I just wanted to know, Islamically, if you were as desperate as these men were, would you ever allowed to do something like that?
This is a very interesting question actually, and for those looking for more detail on it, refer to al-Mughni and al-Insaf by al-Mardawi, as well as the Rawdhah of al-Nawawi and al-Durr al-Mukhtar for the Hanafi school.
In conclusion, as expected, the majority of the scholars do not allow it in any circumstances due to the intrinsic sanctity of human beings. The Hanafi school were strong in the discussion of this point.
The Shafi’i position and the preferred opinion of Ibn Qudamah for the Hanbali school is that it is allowed in those very extreme circumstances where death is otherwise imminent.
Out of interest, there is a lot of detail in this issue as is always to be found in the wonderfully accurate system that Shari’ah is. For example, again in summarised form and going with the Shafi’i school for simplicity, it is never allowed to kill a living person for this person (although there is discussion about the one who is at war with you), but the one who is dead already, even if Muslim, will be allowed for the one who is about to die.
The other options should all be exhausted first, as the Shafi’i school suggests, such as cutting off a nice sliver from the thigh (or the belly for like every single Muslim male in the UK
). Likewise, one would eat carrion first, and then pig, and then the human flesh, and only that tiny amount to maintain life.
Likewise, in contrary to what was suggested above, one would drink their urine first to stay alive because the evil, harm and sanctity in that would be far less than cutting off a limb to eat or to eat another.
And Allah knows best.
And to think this was a thread about enjoying ourselves at a wedding…
Are we not jumping to conclusions about the Shaykh ??
You’ve got to be kidding right? He’s my hero!
What is the difference between this and what the Ethiopians did in front of the Messenger?
Indeed.
March 13, 2008 at 11:46 pm
hey – is that…. A GUN????!!!!
March 13, 2008 at 11:48 pm
Hey are they …. quite a few guns!
(Disclaimer: I am free from anyone googling/youtubing “guns” and the subsequent consequences as a result of their search!)
March 14, 2008 at 11:49 am
Dabke is great fun
*kicks feet*
March 14, 2008 at 1:14 pm
Jazakallahu khayran yaa Ustadh for your help. Insha’Allah I will definitely look more into this topic as it would be really interesting to read.
Umm – the whole gun thing is actually really dangerous!!! Disclaimer or not – DON’T LOOK UP GUNS!!!
The new Data Retention Directive of the EU http://www.ispai.ie/DR%20as%20published%20OJ%2013-04-06.pdf
(for anyone with the time and patience to read the directive)! means that your telephone and internet data is retained for up to 2yrs and longer if the States want. PLUS the Directive allows States to use this information in other cases, not mentioned in the Directive (ie. for copyright cases rather than just crime) which means that States have a free reign really, and the EU won’t provide much of a safety net for the protection of privacy rights of EU citizens (ie us!) or from blatant violations of appropriate and legitimate use of our data.
And we don’t know this stuff! lol – even SWIFT (the banking consortium) went behind the EU’s back and gave financial information to the US gov of EU citizens’ data and they are STILL doing it, much to the outrage of the European Parliament! Insha’Allah I have heard that some NGOs or some others are planning a HUGE case against SWIFT which Insha’Allah will sort this problem out!
So yeah, everyone, Muslim or not, be careful because your fundamental rights of privacy are actually being eroded very quickly and not necessarily legitimately.
And for those more studious – google in PNR and see what else is happening to your data – the new cross-atlantic sharing of personal data of every EU citizen who ventures to America – and put on a database which can be accessed by American authorities for a minimum of 15years and LONGER if they see fit! So basically, if you go for a weekend shopping trip to NY, the details of that journey, including the credit card you used to book the flight, the exact seat you sat on etc will be on American databases for 15years.
sorry for the essay! Just thought you might like to know how your data is actually really being thrown around everywhere! So, be careful what you search for online – the Dabke could get you into a lot of trouble
March 14, 2008 at 7:51 pm
A2
Brother A2, with your permission. Can I paste your comment Number 9 in an email and circulate it amongst the brothers and sisters.
But only, with your permission. You have explained it very well and saves me time trying to regurgitate the issue, when you’ve already explained it.
If you choose not to, I understand.
Jazakallah.
March 14, 2008 at 10:22 pm
Assalaamu alaykum
Akk Abdullah, I am actually a girl
but yes of course you can! And jazakallahu khayran for asking me for my permission; I really appreciate it.
I actually started working on this project for an NGO so if you, (or anyone) would like some more information let me know and Insha’Allah I’ll try and send you some of my research or what not (a lot is summarised though into brief reports because the NGO doesn’t have the man-power to read through hefty documents – that’s why they make me do it! lol) There’s some very interesting, albeit SCARY stuff on ‘blacklists’ and case law related to that.
Also, if you could/want to, send it to every European you know; it affects everyone in the EU.
March 15, 2008 at 12:35 am
Jazakallah A2, sorry I did not mean to assume your Gender.
May Allah (swt) Bless you and continue to take good work from you. Ameen.
I may need more information,like you’ve offered, and will send you my email address; unless you have an alternative means of sending it to me.
March 15, 2008 at 12:38 am
I am no fan of al-Ubaykan; his silly comments about Iraq, Palestine, and Lebanon, as well as attacks on other respectable ulema, his lack of stability and principles, and his shilling for the regime leave with a very low opinion of the man. I don’t wish the eat the flesh of the scholars, but after a small review of his political statements it isn’t hard to see why some have dubbed him “the scholar of the Marines”.
That being noted, I think this is a foolish thing for his opponents to use to attack him with, it is just petty. Besides, al-Ubaykan is irrelevant. I know of almost no one who regards him as a serious scholar. He isn’t anywhere near the league of our beloved scholars and teachers like Sh. Safar al-Hawali, Sh. Nasir al-’Umar, or Shaykh Salman al-’Awdah. So I think he is best left ignored, wa Allah a’Alim.
March 15, 2008 at 12:39 am
A2, unless you have a website that you post this information onto ?
March 15, 2008 at 1:49 am
I’l tell you what beats the Ardha and the Dabke…… The Luddi!
March 15, 2008 at 2:28 am
As salaamu alaykum, I pray all is well. Off topic, I was wondering what classes do you hold on a saturday at Makki Masjid? Me and my cousins are kinda lost since the adab classes are put on hold.
March 15, 2008 at 2:19 pm
Abdullah, unfortuantely I don’t have a site where I put this up but if you write down your email address then, Insha’Allah, I will be in touch.
March 15, 2008 at 2:21 pm
well that was smart and i didn’t actually mean to do that lol but you can leave a comment on that site and it should get to me InshaAllah
March 15, 2008 at 6:45 pm
How about BHANGRA?
March 16, 2008 at 3:42 am
How about the Chicken Dance? I want to see more of our mashaykh doing the Chicken Dance.
Or better yet, what about the Lambeth Walk?
March 16, 2008 at 11:02 am
A2, I’ve submitted my email address to you.
March 17, 2008 at 6:06 pm
I couldnt resist. I googled Dabkah and watched it. My collegue pointed out that it looks like an Arabian Riverdance!
April 2, 2008 at 4:28 pm
Ok I know what Dabkah is – what is this “Riverdance” of which you speak err, type..?
(Disclaimer: you are not free from anyone googling/youtubing “Riverdance” and the subsequent consequences as a result of their search!)
April 6, 2008 at 2:16 pm
LOL i had to google dabkah – its like they duin arabian 2 step break dancin. funny dudes!
May 24, 2008 at 3:38 pm
assalaamu alaikum,
We should all fear Allaah and look at all the good the shaykh has done instead of this one thing. We are all humans and we all commit sin. Just because he ‘danced’ doesn’t mean he is going to hell or that Allaah is displeased with him. Rather I believe Allaah would be displeased with those who are criticising him behind his back and making a mockery of him.
wassalaamu alaikum wa rahmatullaah
June 21, 2008 at 2:39 pm
[...] Disclaimer: I’m not to be held responsible for General Saab’s (music-accompanied) dabkah right at the end of the advert, which is pretty poor. I think he needs some tips from our man on the scene Sheikh Obeikan… [...]