Actually, is there really still a debate? Haven’t we dealt with all this before?
The answer: yes. Emphatically so. (please read all the articles in the link carefully because 99% of all queries have been dealt with therein)
I’m not one to waste my time re-hashing old arguments and arguing just for the sake of arguing with mostly young and new Muslims who perhaps weren’t around 4-5 years ago, and for them now the “voting is shirk” slogan fits their age and experience in Islam. Read: little.
But, after canvassing some of these young voices over the last few weeks and receiving statements like the following:
- Surely this is verging on shirk where man does not recognise Allah swt as ruler and makes up rules for his own… i.e. he is “playing God”!
- It’s as if we’re saying Allah swt’s rules aren’t good enough for us
- come out of your holes munafiqeen and refute what he says.
- But of course, mushriks will be mushriks, no matter how much aqidah talk they spur out, their nature is still shirk.
Of course it would be lazy of me and perhaps disrespectful to dismiss the opinion that “voting is shirk and renders you non-Muslim” as something to be ignored, because it comes mostly from youngsters.
Or that it comes from bored internet warriors.
Or that it comes from failed Muslim groups such as Hizb al-Tahrir and al-Muhajiroun or the Anjem Choudhry Group or whatever they’re called these days.
Or that it is from people who are normally associated – whether by word or action – with the excommunication and murder of their fellow Muslim brothers and sisters around the world.
Or because they are going up against an almost scholarly consensus of our time that “to vote with an intention to improve one’s conditions is permissible.”
But then again, I am a rather lazy person. So consider their argument null and void.
Let me state very clearly for all those who wish to know: to vote for any candidate in any election – affirming of course that the true hukm is for Allah alone – based upon the premise that you wish to improve as best as possible the circumstances that you live in, or the circumstances of other Muslims elsewhere, is a permissible act. Indeed I hope that you will be rewarded for taking out the time to research how best you can make a difference.
When you vote for a man, you don’t invalidate the Divine Law of God. Rather you have declared your inability to implement fully that Divine Law, something which you are in a state of every single day that you live here anyway.
The idea that abstaining from voting so that you don’t fall into shirk therefore is a mockery. Abstaining because you feel that your vote won’t make any difference on the other hand, is something else: a respectable position and thus deserves consideration.
The articles above have discussed the fact that we are not held to account for what happens at the end, rather we are judged based upon our efforts. And these efforts I guess, are based on two areas: local interests and national interests.
Usually, political experts tell Muslims not to expect too much with respect to national policies and interests simply because the key playing factors are normally well outside the hands of the ruling party in government. We don’t wish to be conspiratorial but political history and indeed the way that the “War on Terror” seems to be panning out suggest very much that whoever runs any country in the world today is being dictated to by unseen powers and forces behind the scenes.
It is ironic then that despite the fact that the experts suggest concentrating on local issues, the very real possibility in May 2010 of a hung parliament has thrown the national agenda right back into the mix. The small benefit of a hung parliament for Muslims is just that one single party will not be able to arrogantly move against the will of the people; rather the more varied the voices and players in the decision making process, the perhaps more beneficial for all people who are looking for more considered and thoughtful policies as opposed to those that we’ve seen in the last ten years. Perhaps. Wallahu a’lam.
And nothing more is upon us brothers and sisters. The claim that you are held responsible personally because you voted in a party that went to war afterwards, is incorrect. Did you want the war to happen? If yes, then get ready for a roasting in the Akhirah. Did you try your best to avoid that war by taking all possible means legally allowed to you in said country, and then even still failed? Get ready for reward insha’Allah in the Akhirah.
As for the local scene, then it is very difficult for even the most apathetic of us to argue that block voting can’t ensure better candidates for our local communities. For those that actually do engage with their local MP, they’ll know that this is simply a person who represents their needs and causes when the situation arises. Sometimes they are very good and support all your causes, some are not so bad, and some don’t give you the time of day, and worse work actively against the Muslim community.
For the ignorant Muslims who proudly shout out, “Well you should vote BNP then because at least they wouldn’t go to war and they’d pay for your hijrah too, hahaha!” we’ll say, please accept the hijrah money and leave us alone because you clearly have no idea of politics if you think that just because someone might not want to go to war now, they won’t do so in the future. And in any case, the BNP could pay these Muslims a hundred thousand pounds each to leave and they’d come running back home after a few weeks of realising that their Islamic utopias haven’t turned out to be how they dreamt it.
Yes, let’s all not vote and allow the BNP and UKIP to rule our local schools and Masajid with the proud manifesto of their poster boy Wilders, “Close all Islamic Schools, ban burkahs and the Quran, stop Islamification. Enough is enough.”
Unbelievable, absolutely unbelievable.
A final word on the issue of apathy other than the fact that we probably can have a national influence and most certainly a local influence, leads to the most important reason for me personally that we should vote: it proves to these elected officials that we cannot be ignored.
You see, we’re not Jews. We’ll be ignored because of our lack of wealth and high positions in the banks and other organisations.
We’re not White Christians. We’ll be ignored because we cannot lay claim to some emotional connection to the land itself and the psyche of the masses of olde who have made this Christian country what it still clings on to today.
We’re Muslims. We don’t have much going for us except that we can be loyal, hardworking and good citizens. Oh, and we have some silly high numbers in a few places which means that if you as elected representatives don’t support our needs here and there, we’re going to kick you out and cost you your dream job mate. Sure, we’ll be ignored most of the time as all the people of democracies generally are, but accountable you will be held.
If nothing comes of this exercise except that we are taken half-seriously by the authorities, then that’s enough of a reason to get out and vote. It really is.
Let me say at the end that I guess I’m bored with this subject as one would be expected to be having bashed it to death so many times. If you don’t want to vote because you really can’t see the benefit in doing so then ok, fair enough. If you don’t want to vote because it’s haram, khalas, leave us alone. And if you don’t want to vote because it’s shirk and you insist we’re all kuffar and mushrikeen for voting, then khalas even better, leave us alone now and let us pick some ajr from you on the Final Day insha’Allah.
Wallahu a‘lam.
April 19, 2010 at 2:53 pm
[...] Eesa Ni’matullah is er zowat een consensus (ijma’) dat stemmen toelaatbaar is. (Zie: http://alternativeentertainment.wordpress.com/2010/04/19/the-big-voting-debate/) Zie ook zijn eerdere post, reeds in 2007: [...]
April 19, 2010 at 4:50 pm
Masha’Allah x a billion!!! FANTASTIC!!!
April 19, 2010 at 11:14 pm
Barakallahu feek for this Ustaadh AE. I’ve read around the issue a little bit and the position that voting is permissible in accordance with the principle of attainment of good and reduction of evil seems to be, undeniably, the most sensible and correct one.
One of the articles that I read was written by Sheikh Haitham al-Haddad a few years back which can be found here: http://islam21c.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=18367:advice-to-british-muslims-regarding-the-coming-elections&catid=39&Itemid=83
I was wondering whether you could comment on his suggestion, haafidhahullah, that Muslims in the UK should unite and vote for selected parties which have already been pre-determined by Muslim organisations who will better understand the political arena?
April 24, 2010 at 9:19 am
Wa feeka barakallah – yes I agree that political experts should give that guidance, and I’ll be putting up something on that soon IA i.e. a recommended list of candidates…
April 19, 2010 at 11:51 pm
How can we vote when we cannot know what is beneficial? In the USA Muslims were advised to vote to George W. Bush, but he turned out as the butcher of Baghdad.
“There may be something you ike but it is bad for you….Allah knows you know not”.
I’ll stick to Shariah and not vote for secular parties.
April 24, 2010 at 9:20 am
I’m hoping to stick to Shari’ah too insha’Allah
April 19, 2010 at 11:54 pm
So…..
………..who do we vote for sheikh?
April 24, 2010 at 9:20 am
Coming soon IA…
April 20, 2010 at 5:56 pm
Asalaamoalaykum
Your last post seems to be addressing your recent experience with ‘young’ people. My question was quite specific and was not covered in that post or the other articles linked to that.
What I was asking on the other thread was do you think there is a legitimate ikhtilaaf on this issue and that those who say its haram have an opinion based on sound daleel even if it is different to your opinion or the direction you think the community should be following?
We recently learned of the death of Dr Israr Ahmed in Pakistan, may Allah swt have mercy on him. He held the opinion that its haram to participate in the voting process in Pakistan and the UK. All I was asking is if you agree that such opinions are legitimate to hold?
I was am trying to insult/offend as other may have been doing as suggested in your recent post but just wanted a clarification.
Wa salam
April 24, 2010 at 9:28 am
Wa ‘alaykum salam wa rahmatullah
I think there’s a legitimate debate about many things, for example it is very true to say that unfortunately many Muslims get involved in kufr politics seeing it as not a means whatsoever, rather they see it as the ends and the goal. Thus on this basis, scholars would even close the door to those who don’t think like this and who have more noble intentions.
So yes, there are points of debate of course, but on intrinsic details. I never heard any of the established ‘Ulema say what we see and hear in our discourse here in the UK from these youngsters.
So what isn’t debatable is the level of maturity and intelligence of the “voting is shirk” lobby which actually does itself a disservice in many ways, as well as other sects/groups such as HT effectively trying to use this debate as an attempt to revive its fortunes on the da’wah scene.
And they say we don’t do politics…
April 20, 2010 at 11:37 pm
I’m voting for Frank Gallagher.
April 24, 2010 at 9:31 am
What? And not for Jeremy Clarkson?!
April 24, 2010 at 10:09 am
No, because Frank is spot on.
April 21, 2010 at 7:11 am
The following are excerpts from a lecture of the Muhaddith of Pakistan, Al Allaamah Badee’ud Deen Shah Ar Raashidee (rahimahullah) on the mistakes and deviations that began to appear during his lifetime in ‘Jamiat Ahle-Hadeeth’. The Shaykh, walhamdu lillaah, was not known to bite his tongue on the mistakes of the various sects that emerged in the Indian sub-continent, and the Jamiat was no exception to this.
In this manner, some of our brothers have accepted democracy and have mistaken it for Islaam. It is astonishing how they have accepted a western ideology while being AhleHadeeth. Did the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu alaihi wa sallam) give us this ideology, did the rightly guided Khulafaa give us this ideology, or did the four Imaams give us this ideology? Who gave us this ideology? An ideology emerged from Europe and you accepted, you deemed the ideology of the Messenger sallallaahu alaihi wa sallam deficient! Let me ask you one question. Are there any opposing political parties in the Sharee’ah. If the government was established for the sake of Allaah, and someone stood in opposition of it, what would become of him? There would be hostility everywhere. Democracy safeguards these hostilities, and this is why evil is given a chance to exist. It is for this reason that these people who are starving for power attempt to win power and fight (amongst each other).
Has Islaam not taught you how to run the governments? Did not the Messenger (sallallaahu alaihi wa sallam) establish an Islaamic government within a kingdom of kufr? How did the Messenger (sallallaahu alaihi wa sallam), how did he establish this government? He acted upon the guidance of Allaah and he was successful, Allaah gave him victory, Allaah gave him success. All forces were in opposition to the Messenger (sallallaahu alaihi wa sallam) and they still are; the forces of these selfish maulvis (religious leaders), the forces of saints (peers), and the forces of the wealthy. All of these groups are against each other but are united against the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu alaihi wa sallam). The time came when the Messenger (sallallaahu alaihi wa sallam) was given victory, and he announced on the hill of Safaa, “There is none worthy of worship except Allaah alone, and He aided His salve, and completed His promise, and He by Himself defeated the forces. This is Islaam, and this is our methodology, and this is our Imaam.
How is it that we accept those things that he (sallallaahu alaihi wa sallam) cursed, and we accept the methodology of the enemies of the Messenger (sallallaahu alaihi wa sallam)??
Today, there is a group that claims that they are from the upholders of the religion, and they used to claim at one time that it was impermissible to partake and run in elections. Later, they claimed that all of these things are necessary and permissible if we want to gain power, so they began to partake in all of these things that these worldly (political) parties partake in. The people of the Jam’eeyah (AhleHadeeth) began to walk in their footsteps.
This is what taqleed is, acting upon the correct and incorrect actions of your Imaam; they do not separate, take what is correct and what is incorrect, this is the Muqallid.When these people (who partake in elections) received the fatwa that these action are impermissable, none of them objected, even though it is necessary that one of the two is incorrect.
An ideology in which an individual who seeks leadership stands in elections, and they divide into groups and parties, and they severely waste the wealth of the Muslims on backbiting and mud-slinging, how can an ideology such as this be correct?
So my brothers, this methodology in not found in the Quraan and the Sunnah. The methodology of the Quran and the Sunnah is that of the Khilaafah, where the Muslims have one leader under whose order all are included…”
April 22, 2010 at 10:40 pm
Its strange that people such as “Abdul” and “Anonymous” want to leave replies about reasons for not voting etc even the post says if you do not want to vote then LEAVE US ALONE. So how about it…
April 23, 2010 at 2:04 am
As Salaamu’Alaikum Ustadh
JazakAllahu khair. I know i may have left this abit too late… but I’m going to look into whats happening locally (Rochdale, U.K) and then decide my vote. Please make Dua’ Ustadh that Allah keeps us all sincere.
Ma’ssalaaamah
April 24, 2010 at 9:35 am
Wa ‘alaykum salam wa rahmatullah
Waffaqakumullah – check out the http://www.getoutandvote.info site under Rochdale and see what the candidates have said, then check the MPAC site as well. I’ll be posting my own studies later on as well IA.
We hope and put our trust in Allah jalla wa ‘ala that these efforts are indeed for His sake alone, in order to help better the Muslims in the UK, and only He is able to aid us in that.
April 23, 2010 at 2:39 pm
Assalamualaikum Abu Eesa,
I think the best solution (and maybe one you could offer as an alternative to those who do not want to vote for a party) is that they draw a line across the ballot paper and include it to be counted.
I was told by a political activist that this would ensure that they would still be counted in the average of the total number of people who voted, which would help to keep the BNP out without their vote going to any particular party.
Maybe this is something you could look into and suggest? After all, our aim is to improve the condition of the Muslims in the UK and elsewhere!
JazakAllah Khair. As for me, I will be voting on May 6th inshaAllah.
Umm Zaid.
April 24, 2010 at 9:37 am
Wa ‘alaykum salam
I’m intrigued, only because what you say sounds quite nonsensical!
But seriously, I’d be interested if you can find me any more info, and I’ll happily retract my thoughts…
April 24, 2010 at 4:25 pm
Spoiling a ballot paper is counted in the overall as a spoilt paper. It isn’t ignored like a unvoted vote is.
April 23, 2010 at 3:13 pm
Salaams
one can’t adopt the position of u to you opinion and me to mine on this issue. Firstly pro secular-party voters opinion will have consequences on all Muslims in uk whether we vote or we don’t. The first problem would be the entrenchment of secular values within our communities. Secondly the anti secular-party voters believe this is a munkar due to the contradiction of the hukm shari and that this is a government plan used to secularise the Muslims. Jack straw in 2002 in prospect magazine called for the creation of a distinctly European Islam where Muslims a adopt western political culture and where Muslims accept that temporal law supercedes any religious edicts (ie man made law is greater than allah’s law). Then we have rand report five pillars of democracy who’s strategy is to develop a democratic ie secular Muslim. Also we have the government sponsored report called ‘contextualising Islam in britain’ which argues that there needs to be a push to direct Muslims through the secular process where Muslims should not see any conflct of faith engaging in a secular democratic framework. This is te same report that tries to reconcile homosexuality with Islam and thr Muslim community.
So we have clear cut government thinking to push Muslims into demcrqcy we have organisations set up by inayat bunglawala (who called for gay Muslim organisations to be affiliated in mcb) who get about £600000 to help promote this get out and vote campaign. Remember inayats wife was heavily involved in organising pve funding this is a fund designed to change Islam.
So we now have naive ulema desperate to appear non radical in government eyes who lacking political insight are just going with the flow reflecting the opinion of the emotional masses to appear mainstream and relevant. But they are also following government policy to the tee. And this is not to mention the dodgy fiqh they have used to justify voting which is akin to the likes of gamal al banna, usama hassan and the rest ofnthe secular sellout.
So pro secular party voters be aware that your actions doesn’t leadto tip toeing the Muslims into destruction.
April 23, 2010 at 5:37 pm
We as muslims already have a system ordained by Allah; called the shariah. Set up a party promoting that and I will vote for you.
April 23, 2010 at 9:09 pm
well since your pointing it out why don’t you set up the party and i promise you everyone on this blog will vote for it inshallah
April 24, 2010 at 10:11 am
JazakAllah Khair for the reply to my comment Abu Eesa but I was not asking about the ‘intrinsic details’ of the motives behind why different people want to vote or the ‘voting is shirk’ lobby as you termed it. What I was asking was do you accept that those such as Dr Israr Ahmed RA and others who say voting is haram, have an opinion that is based on daleel from the Quran and Sunnah and is a valid opinion to hold? Do you accept that?
April 24, 2010 at 11:25 am
when they said it’s haraam, were they referring to here and now? UK 2010?
April 24, 2010 at 1:40 pm
Salaams
I find it strange that we should refer for our political and Islamic acumen from groups like ife, mpac and iengage. As for mpac they believe in not holding any particular Islamic stances or agendas all they want to do is provide ‘space’ for the Muslims here and abroad. They also accept unislamic stances such as accepting the legitimasy of two state solution. Then we have iengage headed by inayat who called for gay affiliates to the mcb. Are these the ppl we shpuld depend upon for our politics and then claim it’s shariah?
Secondly I am confused with the contradictory positions your article holds. Firstly it haitham believes democracy is kufr yet azzam tamimi believes it’s permissible. Yet both are quoted in the same article as legitimising voting. So what is democracy? A system we can adopt and islamise or a system which is kufr?
Secondly, you argue that it’s the lesser of the two evils to vote for secular parties yet at the same time it’s shara man qablana? If it’s shara man qablana then it’s not evil to vote for secular parties to gain your interests as we have evidence that you claim from yusuf (as) that permits this. But then why use lesser of two evils? This is a glaring contradiction as it then negates the first evidence ie that it is infact haram from it’s origin. And if it’s haram in origin how is it haram in origin? Is it becus the shariah of the prophet(saw) states it’s haram? If so then it would be prohibited to follow the shariah of previous prophets as it would have been abrogated by our shariah.
Anyways more could be said about these evidences. But I await your responses to explain away this contradiction.
April 24, 2010 at 5:26 pm
The only contradiction that I see in what I’ve written in recent times is why on Earth I ever thought writing an article supporting the right for Hizb ut-Tahrir to speak freely would be beneficial for the Muslim community!
See that’s a contradiction from me against good common sense.
I have no answer for this. My deepest apologies!
April 24, 2010 at 1:51 pm
Its interesting that when you cite the name of a scholar who says participation in legislation (ie political particpation) is haram they object if he is from the Muslim countries and yet they have no problem when Shaykh Qaradawi/Mawlawi/Abdullah b. Bayyah says its permitted. Theyre not exactly rom Bradford are they? why the inconsistency?
April 24, 2010 at 5:27 pm
Agreed. It is a silly argument in my opinion to defend a position from.
April 24, 2010 at 2:10 pm
Also if u want established ulema who are against voting for secular parties then u have sheikh taqiudeen an nabhani, sh abdul qadeem zalloom, sh ahmed daour who all graduated from al azhar. Then we have imam Ali saeed abul hassan as sudani who was a faqih in maliki fiqh. sh shahrul hussain al azhari from Birmingham, dr israr ahmed. The reason why I only quote these few is that their opinions are easily verifiable from their numerous work on these issues and the with sh shahrul if u want I can get u his details so u can speak to him directly.
As for some of these other ulema who say pro secular voting is halal how many have actually studied the ahkam related politics which books have they studied from and who gave them ijaza? How many of them have studied capitalism the political philosophy of democracy?
April 24, 2010 at 5:28 pm
I haven’t got the foggiest! I’d be happy to just give and receive a salams, forget about ask a Shaykh for his CV!
April 24, 2010 at 4:17 pm
What is interesting after having read the above is that the pro Abu Eesa’s position comments, that have been posted, may be described best by the man himself and I quote ‘fits their age and experience in Islam. Read: little.’
To qualify this observation I will quote as an example what one individual posted above –
what Says:
April 23, 2010 at 2:07 pm
Yet all, without exception, are from the Arab states or from Africa.
Hmm….biased much?
One must look at all angles.
Now Abu Eesa’s earlier quote must definitely apply to this individual do we not agree?
I mean what kind of individual actually believes that the Islam which the Prophet PBUH came with, was specific to a particular time or location and not completed and perfected, as is the undeniable fact, for every time and every location?
I would say a very deluded individual. Khair however, as I do not wish to attack this individual on a personal level.
Abu Eesa whilst you may intend good how many people have intended good and never arrived at it?
I would like to remind myself first, you second and all others, that we should fear Allah and not act upon our whims and desires.
The list of names Abdul posted above as people who hold the view that voting is haram has some real knowledgeable scholars on it, may Allah be pleased with them and have mercy upon them.
However for somebody to dismiss this and say that Shaykh Abu Eesa is right and they are/were wrong and worst still for you Abu Eesa to feel comfortable with this assumption is dangerous and foolishness, may Allah guide you and me.
This ‘get out and vote’ initiative of yours smacks of the same sort of obnoxiousness and arrogance that your ‘Unity Pledge’ escapade displayed.
Who would have thought that the Unity Pledge pipe-dream of yours would have the impact of claiming as a casualty your good friend, Usama Hassan, the grandson of a great Muhadith may Allah be pleased with him.
How detrimental was the unity you called to on this persons Islam?
It flew in the face of that which our beloved Prophet PBUH came with and did nothing but create controversy and bring a lot of attention to all those involved, not to mention affected those that were upon the Sunnah, to that which opposed it, like your aforementioned good friend.
I can’t help but feel that controversy and attention are things that maybe you enjoy as you always seem to do that which will bring most of both things to you, although only Allah knows best.
Now for me the best comment posted above was that by Anonymous on what Badee’ud Deen Shah Ar Raashidee (rahimahullah) said regards to voting.
It was concise and clear, that this was not from the way of the Prophet PBUH so safety is in staying well away from it.
However I pray Allah returns you, me and all other Muslims to the book and sunnah such that we use it in all aspects of our life and stop following our whims and desires and misguiding others.
Now I know that this is the cue for the fans,students,defenders etc to attack me but Allah is my witness that what I write is as a sincere advise and not a personal attack.
I advise all others who feel that Abu Eesa is somehow an authority on anything to do with religion to stick to the real people of knowledge.
I would hope that Abu Eesa would be the first to admit that he would struggle to fit into the ‘student of knowledge’ title never mind ‘Scholar’
And with this in mind let’s stick to rulings of scholars on issues such as this and others when it comes to looking for guidance and Allah knows best.
April 24, 2010 at 4:35 pm
“April 23, 2010 at 2:07 pm
Yet all, without exception, are from the Arab states or from Africa.
Hmm….biased much?
One must look at all angles.
Now Abu Eesa’s earlier quote must definitely apply to this individual do we not agree?
I mean what kind of individual actually believes that the Islam which the Prophet PBUH came with, was specific to a particular time or location and not completed and perfected, as is the undeniable fact, for every time and every location?
I would say a very deluded individual. Khair however, as I do not wish to attack this individual on a personal level.
Abu Eesa whilst you may intend good how many people have intended good and never arrived at it?
I would like to remind myself first, you second and all others, that we should fear Allah and not act upon our whims and desires.
The list of names Abdul posted above as people who hold the view that voting is haram has some real knowledgeable scholars on it, may Allah be pleased with them and have mercy upon them.”
Let me make this incredibly clear. The scholars in that list are NOT Prophets or Messengers of the One and Only God. There words are hence NOT Qur’an, Gospel, Sacred utterances etc. They have an OPINION. My point was, be honest, open and truthful when trying to show what the majority of ‘scholars’ think. This is not done by posting names of one side only – especially without their justifications for their stance. That is akin to the pathetic attempts during the Iraq war of some politicians in justifying the war by saying; “Only a million people came out to protest – therefore the rest of the country supported the war.” That is delusional.
And that was the tactic used above.
And this is the most delusional: “And with this in mind let’s stick to rulings of scholars on issues such as this and others when it comes to looking for guidance.”
April 24, 2010 at 5:30 pm
Ameen to any du’as that you really mean insha’Allah!
And a bit of advice from me: I’d forgot about the manhaj you’re on, become a Sufi, and then come and give me bay’ah – only a Shaykh’l-Islam like myself can really set you free from all this ideological nonsense that’s obviously bothering you so much…
April 24, 2010 at 4:39 pm
Salaams
inshallah these are specific questions which many of your articles do not adress or are addressed in a confusing manner
1. Do you believe the system of democracy is kufr?
2. Do you believe in origin it is haram to vote for secular parties? I’m asking for the rule in origin not the particular ruksaa that some claim in this country.
3. Do you wish to see shariah implemeted in this country?
4. Do you wish to see the establishment of the khilafah in the Muslim world and unity of the Muslims under one khaleefa?
5. Do you believe homosexuality is a sin and that they should be punished under a legitimate Islamic authority (problem we have is very few ulema will say this openly now, whereas at the same time the calls to legitimise it has grown more stronger)?
April 24, 2010 at 5:33 pm
Confusing to who exactly? It’s not for me!
I’d expect Hizb ut-Tahrir to be confused, so that’s not really a biggie if you know what I’m saying.
My best advice to any HT members: go away and study your religion properly and sincerely under the ‘Ulema. Alhamdulillah I came across many members of HT back in the day and I never saw a SINGLE member who remained with this cult-group who actually went away and studied the religion. Once they are exposed to true knowledge, their previous ideologies melt away alhamdulillah.
Pray for them my brothers and sisters, because they are good people at heart.
April 24, 2010 at 4:53 pm
i think its actually patronising to claim/assume that scholars in the Muslim country did not understand the reality of political participation. They declared the particpation in legilsation which wis done in imitation of what happens in the West as haram,so what about the real thing in the West? It is far worse here.
April 24, 2010 at 5:33 pm
Agreed.
April 24, 2010 at 5:02 pm
yes, the scholars on the list are not Messengers and nor are the ones who are pro particpation in legislation either. but that was not the issue i think. the issue was the arrogance of the statement that there is no debate by someone who is claiming a rukhsa from the established haram. those who wish to get round the qat’i prohibition of legislation by claiming rukhsa should be a bit more humble if they wish to gain any respect.
April 24, 2010 at 5:20 pm
Salaams.
Forgive me one last question.
6. What is the state of a Muslim who believes in the secular policies of a secular party he votes for?
April 30, 2010 at 11:53 pm
[...] I’m not one to waste my time re-hashing old arguments and arguing just for the sake of arguing with mostly young and new Muslims who perhaps weren’t around 4-5 years ago, and for them now the “voting is shirk” slogan fits their age and experience in Islam. Read: little.” [http://alternativeentertainment.wordpress.com/2010/04/19/the-big-voting-debate/] [...]
May 5, 2010 at 6:46 am
[...] note that comments are closed, as the Imam will not be available to respond. Please contact him directly if you have any questions. We’d still like to hear your opinions, via the following [...]
April 22, 2010 at 11:21 pm
That’ s just sad that you had that much time to right this – so what if 86 people had an OPINION. Opinions CAN be wrong. That’s why they are opinions.
Now, if you please, all the scholars with the opposite opinion?….
That’s the only way your tactic can be fairly balanced.
April 24, 2010 at 9:30 am
If it’s not too much hassle, could you provide the references and the details of what they said?
April 22, 2010 at 11:22 pm
The first sentence was meant to end wit a ? or a ?! – then it actually makes sense lol
April 23, 2010 at 2:07 pm
Yet all, without exception, are from the Arab states or from Africa.
Hmm….biased much?
One must look at all angles.
April 24, 2010 at 9:37 am
Lib Dems, Mark Hunter, Cheadle, Insha’Allah
April 24, 2010 at 5:23 pm
Great site brother Abdullah Ramadan – you’ve convinced me now 100% that it’s the Lib Dems I need to vote for in Cheadle.
Nice one.